Ed,

Where is this guy talking about? A big cave with several big trucks inside? Sometimes I think some of you guys go to an island different than the one I go to! It's hard to believe that these people saw things on the Rock in three weeks that most of us have never witnessed. I think I'm beginning to lose it!

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From: George Munson

Gentlemen,

In 1972 or 1973 I interviewed the 92d Coast Artillery's transportation officer. He told me that after Bataan surrendered, he kept his vehicles in areas just off the South Shore Road. There, they were defiladed from Japanese artillery. I have no doubt that we are talking about the same area.

There were three other regiments on the island plus the Navy.  All had vehicles although the 91st CA only had a few.   The 60th had a number of vehicles. I'm not sure how many the 59th had.   Probably not very many. Then there was supply, ordnance, HDM&SB, etc..   There were lots of trucks, motor cycles, tractors, and sedans on Corregidor.   Even a bunch of civilian sedans. They were not all destroyed.

Were the rest repairable after the surrender?  Some were, some weren't. There were a lot of scrap details after the surrender. Maybe the Japs used trucks to haul the scrap down to the piers. 

I don't remember hearing about our forces hiding vehicles in tunnels. Maybe the Japs dug the tunnels. They didn't have much else to do for several years.

A big question is why Japs didn't move most of the serviceable vehicles to Luzon?

MY CONCLUSION IS THAT THIS STORY HAS A LOT OF TRUTH TO IT!

George Munson

George,

When I went down there Cliff Arnold was laying there under a tarp with his bare feet sticking out. Now I saw that vehicle, plus others across the road that were blown all to hell. I don't know anything about your trucks on the South Shore Road. I doubt very much whether there were ANY trucks on the South Shore Road. From that point on I didn't see any functional trucks when out scrounging for food. In 1945, any trucks found on the island were placed there by the Japs. I wasn't on the island in 1945, but I question some of these "big" caves or tunnels being described by people I don't know. I have no comments re: Corregidor in 1945. From my observations of the island in 1942, I recall nothing blasted sheet metal. Perhaps these trucks were secreted away in Malinta Tunnel. I don't know where, since there were so many people in the tunnel you couldn't find space to park a roller skate. I think I've heard enough about trucks.

Al McGrew

From: John Lindgren

Al,

Hang on to what you've got left, Al, don't lose any more than you have to,  the worst is yet to come. I am not too sure whether your message is telling us there are no big trucks; no big caves or no big trucks in no big caves on that mysterious island. I would guess we first try to establish whether there were trucks on the island.  I have not pursued the issue of vehicles beyond what the E and F Companies found but I can assure you there were serviceable trucks on Corregidor because we found them during our assault.

I can also state they were purposely hidden.

The February 21 entry in E Company's war diary describes the company's return to their Topside positions during a combat patrol

"On our way back from Cape Corregidor along the road net we found many vehicles despersed [sic] by the Japs. There were vehicles of all descriptions; trucks, sedans, motor cycles, the Jap version of the jeep, etc. and all were well camouflaged. Most were in good condition."

Bill Calhoun describes what F Company found while moving down Grubbs Trail on the same day, February 21.

"There were many old Chevrolet Army trucks, the flat bed rear wheel drive types. There also were some civilian automobiles...Several days later when things were quieter we started the motor of the lead vehicle, a Chevrolet truck. What water was left in the radiator came squirting out [tbe].50 caliber holes in it."

For the inevitable question; would the batteries still be able to turn over the engine? For you old enough to know [but perhaps have forgotten due to the ravages of old age on the mind] the hand crank came with every model. This account is from Calhoun's diary. He believes these vehicles might have been the same group that E Company had found.

E Company had no idea what the name of the area where they found the trucks since the maps issued for the Corregidor attack were very primitive with few place names shown.

These are sightings were made by two rifle companies and we might expect that perhaps the twelve other companies might have sighted others. So we have one element more or less in place, "big trucks"

Who would dare deny there many caves big and small and who knows but some enterprising enemy soldier came up with a brilliant idea, why not drive the trucks on the South Shore Road, park them under cover in a cave and perhaps they might survive the aerial and naval bombardment. You never know when they might come in handy. We must remember too the island was a navy conclave and while soldiers are accustomed to walking sailors are not; they need wheels to go from here to there.

As far as MG Moore's evaluation of ground transport on the island goes, he is talking about 1942 and Mr. White is talking about 1945; plenty of time, I think, to get a little repair and maintenance done. They had all kinds of free labor available who might know how to fix Moore's trucks. The Japs had the serviceable trucks, they had access to a number of caves and they had good reason to get their trucks out of harm's way.

ttfn
(John Lindgren)

Some anecdotal vehicle data that shall do little to support the big truck big cave argument but may never be told otherwise. 

"Cracker" Atkins's supply people used a liberated Japanese truck on Topside that was isolated until the road from Bottomside was cleared three days after the jump.  According to Bill Calhoun he was startled to see a US convertible with a rumble seat with a  Jap at the wheel come "roaring" past F Company's position at the last set of senior officers quarters.   D Battery's fifty caliber machine gun took it under fire and halted it abruptly.

D Company finally left this miserable, dangerous, flyblown rock on 8 March.  They boarded LCI 545 at South Dock and every man carried away some souvenir of his fighting there; a flag, a pistol, a sword, and so on. The company did not want for enterprising "scroungers";  The best might have been the company commander, Al Turinsky, who wouldn't board the 545.  He lay wrapped in a mattress cover shroud in a grave across the North Channel on Bataan.

One particularly enterprising trooper was pushing something decidedly more exotic - a motorcycle.   The trooper asked to bring the bike aboard and was denied permission. He then kicked it to life at dockside, drove up the road to Middleside and at the stockade at the cliff's edge, he turned up the throttle,  pushed away the kick stand and the motorcycle bounced crazily down the steep bluff to the rocky beach.  The whole scene was in full view of the company's paratroopers waiting at the dock.  The dusty bone tired men cheered loudly each time the bike rose and tumbled down crashing finally at the water's edge.

John Lindgren

Hey folk,

Regards,
Verne White

Subject: Examination of Subjective Probability

From: Paul Whitman

To: Gentlemen,*

Can we get a consensus here, and call it quits? Here are my findings.  Please notify Bill Gates at Microsoft, and Janet Reno.

1. By the time of the surrender, the destruction was so total that it was highly unlikely there were any operable or readily repairable motor vehicles remaining anywhere on the island.

2. Between 1942 and 1945, the Japanese brought motor vehicles to the island for reasons known to themselves.

3. The vehicles brought to the island were probably US built vehicles confiscated from business persons in Manila and environs.

4. The vehicles were parked in places where they were hidden from aerial observation and bombing.

5. It is probable that one of those places included a natural cave off South Shore Road.

6. It is probable that another of those places included the Malinta-Navy Tunnel complex.

7. Verne White was involved in an action against Japanese troops off the South Shore Road, when fire was directed at US troops from a cave area.

8. During the course of the action, he saw at least one truck parked in a cave.

9. There is no evidence available to us thereafter as to what happened to the truck or the cave. [Other than the Japanese defenders were killed.]

10. Had the trucks been repairable and useable, it is likely they would have been repaired and used.

11. The trucks were removed post February 1945 on an unknown date, either for repair & use or by scrappers.

12. The prospect of a truck or even truck remains being found off South Shore Road today is in the range of hardly conceivable to virtually impossible.

13. There were caves off South Shore Road where trucks could have been hidden.

14. The present state of large truck-size caves off South Shore Road is unknown.

If anyone has direct knowledge which is contrary to the points above, please advise, and  I will issue an update. This is not a final declaration, not even a declaration, it's just an attempt at putting all the info from the e-mails together.

Regards,
Paul Whitman
Editor CT&N

From: George Munson

Gentlemen,

After 25 years of intensive study of the Harbor Defenses of Manila & Subic Bays, including spending a small fortune on research, many nights and weekends in the National Archives and interviewing a lot of veterans, I have some comments.

Some people are questioning whether there were vechicles on Corregidor. They say that the trolly and the feet were the means of transportation. Lets apply some logic. If there were no vehicles on Corregidor, why did the Army build such an intensive road system? DAH!!

I have pictures of vehicles on Corregidor, including trucks. There were four Coast Artillery regiments headquartered on the island.   I have some of their TO&Es.  The 59th manned fixed installations and did not have need for a lot of vehicles.  Though they had some staff cars.  The 60th manned AA guns and searchlights. They had three batteries on Bataan.  How do you think they got their guns, searchlights, personnel, and equipment to their positions on Bataan?  Filipino porters? NO! They used TRUCKS!  How do you think the 60th moved its equipment out to the M-Day positions on Forts Mills and Hughes? Do you think they hitched Al McGrew and his buddies up to the mobile 3" AA guns and had them pull the guns over to Battery Ramsey?

On second thought, maybe that's why Al is so tired.

I have a picture of a search light battery with its equipment, on trucks, all in front of Harbor Defense Headquarters. The 60th also had at least two batteries that hauled ammunition for the regiment. They were called ammunition trains which was a misnomer. Surprise! They used trucks.

C/91st moved from Ft. Wint to Bataan;   then moved down Bataan, setting up their guns in several locations before reaching their final positions near one of the Bataan airfields.  How did they move their three AA guns, equipment, personnel etc? Water buffalos? No, they used trucks!

The 92d was a MOBILE 155mm GPF Coast Artillery regiment. It used crawler tractors to pull their guns. They, surprise, also used trucks to haul ammunition. Their supply officer was awarded a Silver Star for his efforts to take 155mm ammunition out to the batteries each night. He used a truck.  I interviewed the 92d CA Transportation Officer many years ago. He told me, NOW HOLD ON TO YOUR OPINIONS, that after Bataan fell he moved his vehicles from the 92 Garage area to an area off the South Shore Road. There, the equipment was defiladed from the Japanese artillery on Bataan. No they were not exposed to the Japanese artillery in the Pico de Loro Hills near Cavite.  The Japanese moved all their artillery from that area to Bataan.  Therefore the vehicles were safe.

I have also interviewed a Philippine Scout from G/92d who was a messenger. His mode of travel was a motorcycle. I have a picture of about seven old trucks that belonged to the 92d. Also I have asked former 92d officers if they had still had these trucks during the war. No, they had newer ones. 

I interviewed the Navy's Transportation Officer. I believe his name was At Beal. He had a motor pool just outside the entrances to those Navy tunnels that Danny Howell is so interested in.  I have an interview with another officer, either 91st or 92d, who told me that after he surrendered, he saw a Jap sergeant driving his car. He couldn't believe that it had survived, and apparently without a scratch.

Many 92d CA officers who were billeted near Kindly Field had cars. It took too long for them to ride the trolly to Topside to attend their social functions at the club.

Yours faithfully,
George Munson

ADDENDA

* This is being written in a spirit of establishing "informed opinion". It is not an election or voting, or an averaging process.  The result is not a declaration of what happened.

By way of background, some years ago, January 1966 to be precise,  the US lost four nuclear warheads in the ocean off Palomares, Spain, when a B-52 collided with an air tanker at 30,000 ft.  Three warheads were promptly found.  An extensive search was commenced for the fourth, based upon likely air and water trajectories, but was not successful.

John P. Craven, a USN intelligence officer,  disagreed with the experts as to where the  warhead might have sunk.  Instead he asked the experts to lay  Las Vegas style bets on a series of probabilities, and from them he calculated the odds on it's likely resting place. He thereafter and calculated the probability quotient of the possible outcomes.  The warhead was found closer to the calculated mean spot than any of the individual experts had placed it.

The logic was that when you ask a number of experts to have their best guess, to "take a punt", they not only make a guess based upon their conscious knowledge,  but also upon their years of sub-conscious experiences and expertise.   A 'hunch' is, after all, a factor in the knowledge of people beyond their conscious minds.   Thus the averaging of a number of experts' 'best guesses' takes into account their  cumulative states of expertise (both conscious and sub-conscious), not their individual conscious expertise. The algebraic theory, termed "Bayes' Theorem of Subjective Probability" originated with Thomas Bayes, a mathematician born in 1760. Essentially, his formula quantifies the value of a hunch.

PFW.

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From George Munson

Gentlemen,

...NOW TO ANSWER SOME OF PAUL'S QUESTIONS.

Question 1. Some vehicles did survive. The 92d CA's Transportation Officer told me that just before the surrender that he had his drivers start their tractors, clamp the gas peddle down and let the tractors crawl into the bay. He also told me that the Japs pulled them out and repaired them.

Question 2. This is possible, but very doubtful. Remember, the Japs had two different groups of American POWs on the island. Scrap haulers and technicians. How do you think the POWs got all the scrap down to the docks? Take a good guess. The second group performed the public works functions. To include vehicle maintenance? Incidently, the Japs kept these two groups separated. The second group disappeared. Some people believe they were blown up in Malinta Tunnel during the glory days of the 503d.

Question 3 It's very doubtful that the Japs brought vehicles to Corregidor. They all ready had some and vehicles were at a premium on the mainland.

Question 4. Very possible.

Questions 5 & 6. This is possible

Questions 7 & 8. I have no reason to doubt Verne's word.

Question 9. The cave or tunnel could have been sealed. Many were. If there is any evidence, we have not located it yet. McGetchen, put on your money belt and go to work.Question

Question 10. DOH! That's a no brainer.

Question 11. If the tunnel/cave was not sealed, the scrapers got the trucks.

Question 12. Don't confuse my answer with question 11. If there wasn't much left of the trucks, it's possible that some small parts are still there. I have not been on the island since 1981, but I can remember seeing some vehicle frames.. I don't remember the locations.

Cheney Ravine had what was called Cheney Chute, a dump for metal and old vehicles. I think that the scrappers got the remains.

Question 13. Before Verne's testimony I would have said no.

Question 14. I seriously doubt that the caves/tunnels are still open. Someone would have found them before this time.

Question 15. This is the question Paul was too nice to ask. What was the 503d doing destroying our island? They could have by-passed the island and the Japs would have vacated it for Bataan. Navy destroyers could have taken care of any Jap artillery hidden in caves that decided to put holes in Navy ships. By-passing would have eliminated the Air Forces attempts to wreck the place also.

George Munson

 EDITOR'S NOTE:

1. BIG TRUCK CAVE - it's never been ascertained whether the BIG refers to Truck or to Cave.  Besides, the word "CAVE" is itself a misnomer. Caves are natural formations, and there are no natural caves on Corregidor.  Every one has a human story behind it.    <BACK>